The Link Between Mindset and Sales Performance with Sophie French
The impact of a sales mindset
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Catherine Erdly: What impact does your sales mindset have on your actual sales in your business? That’s the question that we’re going to be exploring in today’s episode. Hi everybody, I’m Catherine. I am your host today. I’m a small business and retail expert, as well as the founder of the Resilient Retail Club, which is my membership group and mastermind for product businesses.
You can find out more at resilientretailclub. com. Today I am joined by mindset coach, Sophie French, who’s going to be exploring all things, small business and mindset.
Welcome to the Resilient Retail Game Plan, a podcast for anyone wanting to start, grow or scale a profitable creative product business with me, Catherine Eardley. The Resilient Retail Game Plan is a podcast dedicated to one thing, breaking down the concepts and tools that I’ve gathered from 20 years in the retail industry and showing you how you can use them in your business.
This is the [00:01:00] real nuts and bolts of running a successful product business, broken down in an easy, accessible way. This is not a podcast about learning how to make your business look good. It’s the tools and techniques that will make you and your business feel good. Confidently plan, launch, and manage your products, and feel in control of your sales numbers and cash flow to help you build a resilient retail business.
Sophie, thank you so much for joining me on the podcast today. Do you want to kick us off with introducing yourself and your business?
Sophie French: Hello. Yes, I would absolutely love to. I am Sophie French and I am a transformational coach, a subconscious mind healer and emotional freedom technique practitioner and essentially an all-around, really, shifter of change for women who are in business. And who really are [00:02:00] struggling with self doubt, doubting themselves, holding themselves back. And I really help them to break free from the limits that are going on in their mind, the stories they’re telling themselves, to live their most fulfilled, purposeful, delicious life.
Catherine Erdly: Love it. And I’ve worked with you, oh gosh, it was years ago. I think it was pre pandemic. So we’ve known each other for a really long time. I don’t know if you met Elizabeth through your workshop, or if Elizabeth Stiles came to your workshop. But I always loved the title of it, which was Crush the Can’t In Your Head.
Sophie French: Definitely, that’s always been an interesting one. That was like, yeah, key. Crush the Can’t In Your Head. Not to be confused with any other word.
How mindset drives success in business
Catherine Erdly: Absolutely, that could work too. So what kind of got you started on this journey? What got you interested in the impact of mindset on women in business?
Sophie French: So I was really noticing years and years ago, maybe eight years ago, I was working as a copywriter. [00:03:00] And I was working with lots of different companies and lots of different people in business to help them with their marketing, to help them with showing up, to help them with sharing their gifts.
And a key thing that I was noticing was like, it’s all very well having great copy, having a great marketing plan, having a great online presence, but if you’re not actually feeling confident in showing up, in being seen, in sharing your message without that mindset and that confidence, this is kind of redundant. Because there’s a gap here and there’s only so far you can go.
So it was like, it’s great that people wanted to invest in their copywriting and their marketing. But I could see that there was a gap that actually I was like, there’s something else going on here. And it was a very personal journey for me, understanding how powerful our mindset is in business.
But also seeing the effects that I could then support clients [00:04:00] within that respect really got me excited. And it was feeling much more exciting because I was able to do both.
Catherine Erdly: Right. So you were creating great copy and you know, you are a fabulous copywriter. I feel like always go check out Sophie’s website if you want great example of really persuasive copy. I think you always do, a great way with words. So you were delivering this shiny, fabulous copy to people or marketing strategy and saying here go do this. And then with some of them just not doing anything with it or?
Sophie French: Yeah, exactly. It was like them sitting there or yeah, even their book or their workshop or their ideas. You know, it was that feeling of like, yeah, you can do so much for someone. But actually there’s this whole other piece about, yeah, how do you have the confidence to then share that with the world and actually tell people about it. Because I’m like, you’ve got this great copy, you’ve got this great product. Let’s get it out there. And that was the piece that people were [00:05:00] resistant on. And I’m like, okay, well, yeah, there’s something to work with here.
What stops most people from promoting themselves
Catherine Erdly: Right, absolutely. So what exactly is it then you think is holding people back? Or can you give some examples of how that might show itself up? So it might be that they unwilling to share their idea or their product or their business with the world. What is the actual fear? What are people scared of?
Sophie French: Yes. What I’ve seen to be one of the most common being fear of judgment from other people is huge. Yeah, there’s fear of judgment, fear of rejection, fear of what will people say aligned with fear of judgment. And therefore, just not wanting to face that feeling, not wanting to be with that fear.
And that comes from really early on. It’s very naturally conditioned within us to be mindful of what other people might think because we might be rejected or not accepted. So it’s very deep rooted. [00:06:00] And this is really what I was seeing, the stories or questions, who am I to do this?
Who am I to share this? Why would anyone buy from me? I’m being silly with my little business. Who do I think I am? All of these stories were actually are most commonly what is getting in the way of people showing up and sharing the amazing things that they have.
Catherine Erdly: And where do you, so you mentioned that these are kind of deeply held beliefs. How aware do you think we are of where they come from? Or is this something that you really have to kind of dig for?
Sophie French: Oh, I love this question. I’m like, I love we’re going to the juice.
Catherine Erdly: Mm hmm. Mm hmm.
How unconscious beliefs shape business decisions
Sophie French: Yeah, so we all have them at like a evolutionary level. If we think about like very basic evolution as cavemen and women going out into the world, doing something away from the tribe would have literally got us killed.
So on an evolutionary level, we’ve got it in us to want to [00:07:00] stay under the radar somewhat. To want to stay safe. It’s literally wired into our bodies of like, “it would be dangerous for me to raise my head above the parapet,” for example. So that’s in there in our biology, in our being. Doesn’t mean that we can’t change it, but that’s like at the root level and then as our conditioning from our parents, from our schooling, from our society that also says don’t step out of line, don’t get too big for your boots, don’t do something different. And so we hold all of that as well on top of things. And that all gets piled up into our unconscious mind, which is running 95 percent of our behavior.
So this is really important to know when we’re going to like set a goal or we say, this is what I want my business to look like. This is how much money I want to make this year. Often, we don’t know that [00:08:00] underneath there are some beliefs or stories unconsciously that are saying, that could mean death. That is dangerous.
Catherine Erdly: Mm hmm.
Sophie French: What I see is that so often without that knowledge, people can turn that in on themselves by saying, “huh, I must not be very good at business. I must not be cut out for this.”
Catherine Erdly: Mm hmm.
Sophie French: They make it a “them” problem. They make themselves wrong when what’s really going on is no, it’s okay. There’s just some unconscious programming.
That isn’t currently aligning with what you say you want. So we’ve just got to get into what that is and shift it.
Mhmm. Everything can line up and you can actually start seeing the results.
Catherine Erdly: So you talked about how as we’re growing up, you know, parents or maybe teachers or maybe other peers, friends. Maybe they’ve kind of given you that impression that [00:09:00] you need to sort of toe the line or not stand out.
Do you think that it is that we’re almost scanning for danger? So if we see examples of other people who are standing out that got, you know, like that tall poppy syndrome. You know, where the idea that if you grow too tall and you’ll get cut down. Is it always somebody specifically saying to you, I’ll just stop showing off or who do you think you are?
Or is it sometimes that we’re almost seeing things around us and interpreting, oh, this person was really unpopular because they were showing off all the time. Or I’m just curious as to if it’s very consistent when you dig in with people as to where it’s come from. Or could it be all kind of number of different things?
Sophie French: Yeah, great question. So it is definitely a number of different things. It really depends person to person on what was the significant imprint or impact of that certain thing at any one time. So it could definitely be like a parental relationship [00:10:00] is the foundation. Like our parents are our world when we’re growing up.
So whatever we learn initially about parents is often how we then see the world in later life. That’s like the foundational root. And we can also see we’re looking to our parents to show us what’s safe, what’s not. So if we see our parents get into debt or something or feel deeply ashamed about it, as an example, then we’re going to think, oh, I won’t do that. Or if we see someone shining or a sibling shining and we’re not allowed to do that, then all of this is happening unconsciously.
It’s a real mixture and definitely seeing other people be what we would now probably called canceled or cut down. We see that so often, particularly as women actually, and it is a real thing that we get to see. If a woman [00:11:00] shines too bright or gets too big, how often do we see that in the public eye that they then get vilified and they then get told that they’re not allowed to do that. And that public “look at that.” so that’s also that.
Catherine Erdly: Mm.
Sophie French: So then we can understand a little bit more when we come to show up in our business. So share a video on Instagram, for example, and feel like we’re actually going to die. It’s not because we can’t do it or not good enough. This is all in there and it’s been playing out.
It plays out in the world around us all the time. We are scanning for danger. We’re scanning for what’s safe, what am I allowed to do, what’s going to keep me safe.
Catherine Erdly: Mm hmm.
Sophie French: Anything that’s not that, we’re going to be like, I don’t think so, unless we’ve got some extra support unconsciously or in our systems that says, I know it’s safe, you’re okay.
And you’ve got yourself, even if it’s [00:12:00] not, is also.
Catherine Erdly: Yes. Yeah, no, totally. And I think for me, and that’s why I’m a big believer that it really, really helps to see something. What’s the phrase? If you can’t see it, you can’t be it or something like that. And so for example, I’ve got my online summit Retail Raw coming up and the purpose behind it when I started it last year was because I wanted to show these people who had grown their businesses from often from their kitchen table all the way to sort of multi million pound businesses.
Because I think I’m curious to hear what you think, but I would imagine that one of the things that helps you feel safe is if you see people who have done what you want to do. And have kind of walked that full path or even if you don’t want your business to be, even if your goal is not to build a multi million pound business, to see people building and thriving and in having these businesses that they’ve created from their own creativity, I think that that’s surely got to be helpful for anyone [00:13:00] who’s feeling like, “Oh, maybe this isn’t safe.”
Sophie French: Yes. Oh, definitely. It’s so important and powerful to see examples and evidence of that are doing it. People that are moving like that to give us evidence for what we can see and believe, because we’re always looking for evidence of what we believe to be true as an unconscious way of being.
If all we’ve ever seen is not that, not what we’re coming to, want to do, then it’s really hard to break out of that. So looking for evidence that supports where we want to go, that supports what we want to believe is huge. And like getting around those people so that it becomes then normal. It’s like, “Oh yeah, this is real and this is normal and I can do this.” there is a world with which this exists and is possible.
Becoming aware of your deep-rooted beliefs
Catherine Erdly: Yeah, totally. I’ve got a question for you about the unconscious. Because obviously as the word [00:14:00] suggests, it is unconscious. How do you know if it’s something that’s holding you back? You’ve given some really great concrete examples of how our mindset can impact us.
So for example, we don’t feel ready to put out our marketing, even though it’s brilliant. You know, we find we struggle with showing up and visibility because you’ve got that feeling of it just feels really unsafe. It is there a way of telling? Or can you tell when you talk to clients?
If they’re talking about something, can you sort of spot when it’s an unconscious belief holding them back or is it because it’s unconscious, harder to pinpoint?
Sophie French: So yes, for me, as you’re talking about it, I’m like, yes, it’s a beady eyed skill that I’ve developed over the years. I can pretty quickly see what is going on under the surface. So a lot of people, when they’re speaking something like our words are only 8 percent of what, what is actually going on for us, the words we say. [00:15:00] Everything else is unconscious.
So it’s our body language, our tone of voice takes up the majority of that. Yeah, I can sense and spot what’s really going on here, what’s really the piece here. So, you know, all of us are operating on the level of what we think is is right and true, and what we’re consciously aware of.
And so, then it’s just taking a little, going a layer deeper, what is this about really? And that is essentially what unconscious exploration is, knowing that whatever’s coming up for us on the surface, a problem fear belief. Is to be able to ask, what is this about really?
Catherine Erdly: Hmm.
Sophie French: It reminds me of like, in the film The Breakup, where Jennifer Aniston says like, it’s not about the lemons!
And it reminds me of this, of like it’s never really about what we think the problem is. It’s always something really [00:16:00] that’s going on underneath our unconscious peace. So very often, we’ll know it for ourselves. It’s our gut feeling. It’s our knowing. If we went a step further and said, what is this really about?
We’d quite quickly get to the unconscious. But it can be tricky so.
Catherine Erdly: For me, I mean, I can only speak for my own personal journey, but I feel like at some point in my, you know, self development journey, I became aware of this idea of subconscious things holding you back and I’ve got better at kind of. I don’t always think, you know, I don’t think about it most of the time, but occasionally I’ll find myself, usually for me it’s procrastination, because I’m somebody who gets a lot of stuff done. But if I start procrastinating you know, got things planned and I’m not doing them. I do then have this sort of thing where I go, oh, hang on a minute. Like you say, what’s really happening? For me, usually procrastination is something to do with am I really sure that this is the right direction? Do you know what I mean?
Sometimes the first time I’m [00:17:00] aware of that is when I start procrastinating, because it’s not the way I typically operate. So it’s kind of like a bit of a red flag. So do you think it’s something that you can always learn to develop? I mean, I’m sure you must be very aware of it in yourself, right?
Sophie French: Yeah. When you said it’s not something you’re thinking about all the time, I’m like, that must be nice. Yeah. It’s like a blessing scanner and a curse. Because yes, it’s on me quite a lot of the time. I’m like, oh, interesting. Just being very aware of things. I wonder why this is happening. I wonder what’s coming up here. I wonder what this is mirroring.
Catherine Erdly: Yeah.
Sophie French: So yes being definitely learning our own. I love that awareness of this is what my not, not the trigger, but the warning sign that’s.
Catherine Erdly: Yeah. The symptoms.
Sophie French: The sense of, yeah, what’s going on here? I wonder what’s really behind this. Definitely becoming aware of our own patterns, of our [00:18:00] own ways of doing things. And being like, huh, this thing’s happening again.
I wonder what I need. I wonder what needs to be shifted here and I definitely think that takes practice to become aware of that because we didn’t necessarily get taught to ask, huh, what do I need here? How do I shift this and what’s going on? So yeah, it’s definitely something we can learn and it takes a bit of that trial and error of like, ah, things happening again. What was this about?
What’s going on here? Do I need to dive deeper? Do I just need to catch it and be like, nope, new line, new story. We’re going this way. Or is there something I could do with delving a little further into?
The entrepreneur’s personal journey
Catherine Erdly: Yeah. And I guess some people just, they go their whole lives and they never even think about what might subconsciously be going on for them. But I wouldn’t say that’s business ownership is like intensive therapy. Do you think [00:19:00] it’s particularly entrepreneurship almost like throws up these situations? Because I suppose you’re operating outside of fixed framework.
Do you feel that maybe we expose ourselves to, not dangerous, that’s the wrong word. But like scary situations more often?
Sophie French: Yeah, definitely. Yeah. One of my mentors would say starting a business is the biggest personal growth training you could ever go on. And I totally would say yes, true. And I really think that is because when it comes down to it, like we are responsible for ourselves, for everything, for our lives. It takes a real being able to work with ourselves, look at ourselves, rely on ourselves.
Again, in a way we weren’t ever necessarily taught. We’re brought up to rely on parents initially. Then at school for teachers advice or guidance. Then in the workplace [00:20:00] having a boss or a manager. We always move through this system having someone else’s opinion, guidance, advice. So when we come to this thing, we’re like, I’m going to start up for myself only to realize, “Oh, I’m that person. I’m the person every day that has to give the guidance and the advice and manage all the things and show up.”
It can be confronting because it’s not something that’s naturally taught. How to have autonomy and sovereignty over our own decisions. And I think that’s the beauty of it. I think that’s why a lot of people go on that journey.
On the business journey. Yes, it’s to the business and yes, it’s to bring their work to the world, but I think a huge part of it is they want to go on their individuation journey. They want to find out who they really are. They have this sense [00:21:00] of like, I’m capable of something and I want to know what I can do.
Catherine Erdly: Yes,
Sophie French: and what I can share.
I wonder what my potential is. I wonder how far I could go. I think that’s such an entrepreneurial spirit. That’s what’s behind it of like, huh, if I’m the creator, wow, that could go either way. Let’s see what.
Catherine Erdly: I love that. That’s such a beautiful description of the journey. And I love that idea that it’s about. Yeah, because also it’s like, for most people, it’s, or not most people, but like lots of people I speak to, it’s about, you know, like you’ve had a bad boss, or I mean, certainly that’s, I certainly felt like one of my big drivers to leaving, maybe not to me starting my own business, but certainly to me leaving the corporate world was I was just like, I just had a lot of very difficult bosses basically in a row.
And I just thought, I just need to do something for myself. So yeah, it’s a really beautiful way of putting it, but then I suppose along the way you’re dealing with all of these [00:22:00] subconscious beliefs that can pop up and go, yeah, like you say, who do you think you are? I always say to people yeah, sure.
Everyone thinks they’re confident, until you’ve created products and put them on a table and stood behind that table for six hours and try to sell them to people. I mean, like that is, whew, that is. You know, and that’s, how many times do people do that over Christmas? Probably people, several people are doing that hundreds of times over the Christmas. Or opening a shop, putting your, you know, putting your name above the door as it were, or having the shop and inviting people in to buy things. Like that is a huge leap of putting yourself out there, isn’t it?
I mean, that’s really. You’re creating something and you’re asking people you’re creating or curating something, products that you believe in. And you’re basically saying to people, do you like these too? I mean, it’s really, I think confronting is a great word for it.
Sophie French: Yeah, it is massively confronting. The most confronting thing we could do. It’s like us putting a piece of our heart in the world and saying [00:23:00] like, yep, here I am then. And yeah, it’s scary to do that over and over and over again. That takes a certain kind of person, takes that level of like sitting in the discomfort of that. Getting comfortable with being uncomfortable.
Catherine Erdly: Yeah.
Sophie French: What does that build in us? That resilience, that growth, that expansion, like it’s gotta be worth it. We’ve got to know it’s worth it. We’ve got to see it work in, even if that’s in ourselves. Even if that’s like, I went and did this thing and it stretched me, but now I’m bigger and now I can hold more.
And now I’m proud of myself. I think that’s what we’re doing in those situations, perhaps without knowing it, sometimes it can feel disheartening and then we have to bring ourselves back again. But I think that’s where we get to show ourselves what we’re made of in all those situations.
Catherine Erdly: Amazing.. Oh, [00:24:00] thank you so much, Sophie. I really enjoyed our chat and yeah, do you want to tell people a little bit more about where they can find out more about working with you?
Sophie French: Yes, absolutely. Thank you, I’ve loved this as well. So, you can find out more about with working with me at sophiefrench.co, you’ll find my experiences there. I often work with people generally over the course of six months to really be able to offer transformation to their business or their business.
Also, I work very holistically, so it’s not just your business, but how you’re doing anything in the world. These unconscious things will support all areas of life. And you can follow me on Instagram over at sophiefrench.co.
Catherine Erdly: Amazing. And of course you’re coming into the Resilient Retail Club membership group, and you’re going to be holding workshop for the members all about keeping your mindset and tip top condition.
Sophie French: Yes, I am. [00:25:00] Yeah, I’m very excited.
Catherine Erdly: Thank you so much.
Sophie French: My pleasure. Thank you.
Catherine Erdly: Thank you so much for listening. Don’t forget, Sophie is joining us on Wednesday, the 5th of February inside the Club, where she’s going to give us a workshop all about how to overcome these mindset challenges and make sure your mindset is in tip top condition for 2025. I can’t wait. It’s going to be a fabulous session. And if you’re not a club member, then head over to resilientretailclub.com and take a look at everything that we offer.
We have a full program of expert speakers each month. As well as coworking sessions and challenges, tasks every week to grow your sales.
It is the place to be if you’re a product business owner, whether that’s e commerce or independent retail, and you want to grow your sales, check out resilientretailclub.com. See you next week.